- What changes did Mao make to Marxism and Leninism to make them more appropriate to the Chinese setting?
- Is it still appropriate to think of
- Discuss the possibility of
Friday, November 6, 2015
Blog Discussion Group Eight
Blog post due at 11:55pm on November 10 and comment due at 11:55pm on November 13.
China
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Is it still appropriate to think of China as a’ Communist” country?
ReplyDeleteTraditionally China has always been a communist country. I think China is more capitalistic.
China is one of the few countries stilled ruled by a communist party. The government operates under the supervision of the Communist Party and all the high-ranking government officials, who are also members of the Communist Party. The only reason they are still called communist is because the political party that is running the country are communist. It’s a form of dictatorship and eventually this will lead to political pressure and change
They follow the communist ideology aspects which according to some, are deviations from Marxism, the goal to create a socialist China. Marxism-Leninism was the ideology of the most apparent communist movement. A prominent ideology associated with communism.
Under the government of Communist Party General Secretary Xi Jinping, China has talked about a need to rebalance the economy. Changing the power and wealth from state-owned enterprises and local governments to the household sector. He began his first year in power with an anti-corruption campaign that caught several high-ranked officials. Chinese cyber espionage was on the rise in 2014. The protection of property rights clearly deteriorated. The political reform has brought some autonomy to the government legislature and the judiciary.
China may be a communist state but the Chinese people express capitalism. Seventy six percent of the people consider to better off in a free market economy. Since 2002 the Chinese have been the strongest proponents of capitalism around the world. Chinese corporations are part of the state and the profits from the corporations become profits for the state. China’s economic freedom score is 52.7, making there economy the 139 freest in the 2015 index. There overall score is 0.2 higher than last year. Improvements in freedom of corruption, business freedom, and labor freedom. The organization for Economic Cooperation and Development states by 2016 China will have the largest economy in the world.
I agree with pretty much all of this. I found the statistics on Chinese people's preferences for a free market particularly interesting. Perhaps Chinese people favor a free market because the resulting profits feed back into the government and therefore programs that benefit the Chinese people.
DeleteFurthermore, I think it is interesting to note that China's unique position as a communistic country that promotes a free market is probably what has led to its booming economy. Maybe modernization theory and democratization theory should use these insights as it tries to explain how and why countries become democratic
I think it's very interesting to think of China as a largely capitalistic country, and to also draw a great difference between China's nominal form of government and the sway of their people. I'm very curious as to where those statistics come from.
DeleteI think in many manners China is no longer communist, if it ever truly, and prolongedly was, at least not 'pure-bread' capitalist, and seems to be in my mind a similar equation as Mao is to Marxism. From my understanding, China seems to greatly use communism as a propaganda machine and a cover for the authoritarian rule of a single party elite (this isn't to say that those who promote China as communist are nefarious or deceitful, or ignorant, but I think they've perhaps reduced communism to a strain that is antithetical to the main visions of communism itself). China does not offer equal welfare (specifically drawing divisions between the rural and urban populations) experiences an outstanding wealth gap, wherein the working poor make less than $100 US annually, while the wealthy live oustandingly comfortably and often own shares or corporations in a lragely privatized market, as following Mao the market has been greatly liberalized. Neither property nor means of production are collectivized. Furthermore, materialism and capitalism seems to rule all. (Perhaps in these manners China fits Marx's image of the pre-communism stage of society that necessitates a proletarian uproar, and finally the peasantry resides in cities--a tragic irony.) Class divisions are even more greatly chasmed as bribery and corruption is rampant.
Discuss the possibility of China’s democratization.
ReplyDeleteModernization theory tells us that as a country's income rises, it becomes more and more likely that that country will embrace democracy. While this theory has come under fire in recent years as a result of research by Przeworski and Limongi, the research and theories deposited by Boix and Stokes seem to revive the idea of endogenous democracy. This bodes well for the prospect of Chinese democracy - certainly China falls into the category of a country with extreme economic growth, posting a 12.4% increase in GDP in 2013, as well as at least an 18% growth every year from 2006 to 2011. However, Boix and Stokes introduce a new determining factor in the modernization theory that may be even more important the the increase in the country's income. This factor is income equality. The greater the level of income equality, the greater the country's chances of democratizing, regardless of how high or low per capita income is. An examination of China's income equality in the light of their economic growth yields a negative forecast for China's chances of democratizing. China's income gap has exploded along with their GDP. "The most commonly used measure of income inequality is the Gini coefficient, which ranges from 0, which indicates perfect equality, to 1, as maximal inequality; a coefficient of .4 or higher is widely regarded as an indication of severe inequality..." (http://journalistsresource.org/studies/international/china/income-inequality-todays-china). In the past 30 years, China's Gini coefficient has risen from .30 to .55. If Boix and Stokes' theory is correct, it would be highly unlikely for China to democratize any time soon, despite their economic growth.
I agree with everything said in this post and find it very interested how rapidly China has turned itself into a world power economically. As a traditional student, China has been a heavy player in the world for much of my life, but to see that this particular trend began around a decade ago is very eye opening as to the success and structure that the CCP has been able to sustain over the years. 12.4% GDP growth is outstanding, and consistent growth of over 18% for a five year window unheard of for many countries. China's per capita GDP is also respectable which is very impressive for a country of their size. Ultimately, the increase in income inequality haults any potential to modernize, and also showcases a capitalist principle as opposed to the "communist" ideology that China could be associated with. Seeing that China's equality coefficient has almost doubled in 30 years, it is interesting to consider what might come of that as time progresses and China continues to gain strength on a world-wide scale both economically and politically.
DeleteWhat changes did Mao make to Marxism and Leninism to make them more appropriate to the Chinese setting?
ReplyDeleteMao implemented several strategies in his time period to help make China a more communist nation. Some where more successful than others. The Great Leap Forward turned out to be the most catastrophic episodes of the 20th century by using an utopian effect to try and boost the country's development past the US and Great Britain in just a few years. A combination of government planning and marketing oriented policies was also used but the most successful change that Mao made was The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. It was a campaign of mass mobilization and utopian idealism. This period lasted from 1966-1976. This revolution, in Mao's eyes, was meant to "jolt China back toward his vision of communism." He used political purification of a nation to get rid of a class society. This means that everyone would be equal. He put together radical party leaders, loyal military officers, and student rebels to help support him and attack anyone who did not support a classless society.
I believe the Mao used communism as defined by Marx and lennin as ruse. I think that he did believe in some ideals and practices of these two but I believe he utilized that as a foundation to for acceptability. He ran China how he wanted confirmed many ideal from Marxism and Lenin to make it appear as he was operating as such. A guise to get what he wanted with a tolerable overtone and not receive much opposition.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a’ Communist” country?
ReplyDelete---
China is officially a communist country. But even though it is communistic in theory, it incorporates many elements of capitalism. Its economy enjoys relative freedom, and--as a result--it has thrived. In fact, it is quickly becoming the largest economy in the world. China's communistic government owns the large corporations, so when those companies turn huge profits, those profits go to the state. Granted--the CEOs and top officials take home enormous salaries (a capitalistic feature) but the net profit goes to the government. In this way, China enjoys the growth that free market ideology facilities. But it also enjoys that the growth and huge profits feed into the state's budget.
In answer to the question, I think it is more appropriate to think of China as a capitalistic nation because Chinese corporations enjoy a lot of freedom and the market essentially functions very similarly to capitalistic nations. It is more appropriate to think of China as capitalistic because, when looking at the world stage and the major players in the global economy, China is in effect more capitalistic than communistic. Even though China is an officially communist state.
Vincent, I would agree with you that even though China is a communist country in theory it is really has more of a capitalist economy to call it a communist country. China is currently the world leader in the global economy. They take profits and have begun investing money into other countries. If it were a communist country the money would be taken and put back into the country. There are also under tones in certain ways that would suggest that they are trying to implement a democratic style government. They allow voting to occur which would suggest that they allow the people to choose their leader. Though we know this is more of a façade then an actual voting process, it is still allowed to proceed.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a “Communist” country?
ReplyDeleteIn theory, the Chinese Communist Party rules the country, but its policies have been less and less communist since 1978, when Deng Xiaoping took over after Mao's death and started liberalizing the economy by opening up several "Special Economic Zones." The CCP has a single grip on the country, but operates more as an authoritarian rule than a communist rule, and has opened many channels that are similar, if not identical to capitalist elements. Today, it is hard to view China as a communist country because of the general reign that is given to private enterprise and opening up of society that used to be so closed off during Mao’s time as chairman. The market that China maintains both worldwide as a manufacturer and domestically with a very large number of stores, shops, markets, and individual sellers showcases the willingness to operate outside of the general isolated principles of communist countries.
It is also important to recognize the vast disparity in income that China has. Much like the United States, China has a very wealthy upper class and a very poor lower class. There is no structured bracket to bridge income, with no guarantee of income equality. There are definitive class divisions, no state wide benefits such as health insurance, free education, state owned enterprises do not distribute profits among the people, etc. China has a fairly respectable economic freedom ranking at 139 as of 2015, a high number for a “communist” state, and has expressed a direct willingness to operate economically as a free market enterprise. Capitalism is a fair assessment of how China has operated recently and could likely continue to shift that way as the economy continues to develop as a world leader.
I agree with your analysis and find these contradictions very interesting. In theory and title China remains a communist country, but that's more or less where it ends. They have in fact treated their country like a capitalist system, and they have seen the results of a capitalist system - from huge growth in GDP to huge growth in economic inequality. And they have done little to maintain the guise of a communist society as the gap between the upper and lower class has grown. But the question in this that truly interests is me is how does a nominally communist regime like China's Communist Party justify economic freedom and open markets, particularly in the face of the economic growth that these things have brought about.
DeleteWhat changes did Mao make to Marxism and Leninism to make them more appropriate to the Chinese setting?
ReplyDeleteFirst, Mao implored Lenin’s theory of imperialism to justify a revolution in a poor agricultural society without the sizable industrial working class that Marx believed was essential to bring about a workers’ revolution. Second, he replaced key concepts of Marx’s theory, mainly the concept of a blue-collar “class” of industrial wage laborers oppressed by the capitalist ruling class with the idea of a working-class “nation” of agricultural peasants demoralized by capitalist countries such as the United States. Mao also planned and oversaw several industrial and agricultural initiatives that proved disastrous for the Chinese people. For example, the Great Leap Forward that was to force rapid industrialization. The Cultural Revolution attempted to impose ideological orthodoxy, this too was extremely catastrophic. Young Red Guards attacked bureaucrats, managers, teachers, and others whose ideological purity was questionable. The People’s Liberation Army was called in to reestablish order. Mao also sought to be the “great helmsman” who would lead China out of poverty and into a bright communist future. His personality depicted him as larger than life and gifted with unmatched wisdom.
Holly, I really thought your discussion of Mao's personal involvement in the initiatives which resulted in the death of millions. Mao, while he was a gifted intellectual in his own right, he used the aspects of Marxism and Leninism which suited the hierarchy of the CCP best and when political reform failed to improve China's situation, he used extreme force to quell any dissent (whether it was real or imagined). He was truly idolized by millions of people during the height of his reign but equally hated for the consequences that resulted from his policies. The more he tried to tighten his control on the country, the more obstacles fell in his path to achieve his ideal communist society he so fervently believed in.
DeleteWhat changes did Mao make to Marxism and Leninism to make them more appropriate to the Chinese setting?
ReplyDeleteMao wanted to enact Marxism and Leninism in China but recognized that Marxism was a response to the conditions in Europe. Even though he was a proponent, his form was a little different. He made a few key changes in order to adapt Marxism for China. Most of his adaptation was in focusing on the people in the Chinese countryside. Mao emphasized the role of the peasants in the creation of a communist state. While Marxism focused on the bourgeoisie and proletariat in the factories in the European cities, Mao recognized the need to incorporate Chinese farmers into the communist regime. The first program he used was the Great Leap Forward but this had disastrous consequences resulting in a famine. Using a strong state, tried to turn the agricultural-based agrarian economy into a socialized one. Also, Mao believed that “class struggle continues even if the proletariat has already overthrown the bourgeoisie” (Kesselman 645). This greatly differs from the idea of Marxist communism and a lack of a class struggle due to communism being implemented. In Maoist communism, class struggle will always exist.
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a’ Communist” country?
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that at this point though China claims to be a communist country, it seems more authoritarian then communist. As far as the wealth distribution, in a communist country the wealth is supposed to be distributed evenly between the people. In China there is a huge gap in the wealth distribution. There are VERY wealthy members of society and very poor members of society. A communist country defines what the country is producing, whom to sell it to, and at what price. In China there are hundreds of different markets and industries selling everything and anything you could ever want to purchase. Prices are set depending on demand of products not by what the government has told you to sell your products at. Also there is not a centralized welfare system for health care. The state owned enterprises do not distribute wealth out to the people of China. Private property exists and even is promoted in some ways. So there are several aspects of China which by definition do not fall into the category of a communist country.
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteWell for all intents and purposes China is still politically run by the communist party CCP but it has semblances of capitalism and authoritarian. There is clear class division and the rich stay rich. and the poor stay poor average income is about 400.00 monthly in an average city. lack of health insurance and fees for the basic needs including some primary educations and private property eventually belongs to governments at some point. Hard work for low wages and some even in deplorable conditions that risk health. no distributions of funds from state supported business. State entitlements have been decreased and the most banks are state owned as well, not to mention the government regulates its practices and who get most favorable loans. The media is also government regulated. I am not sure about that China is anywhere close to being a communist state.
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a "communist" country?
ReplyDeleteI feel it is appropriate for many reasons. First off, China is ran by the CCP. While the CCP has overall decreased it's involvement in it's citizens lives, there is still quite a bit. The CCP feels that "only a strong government can provide the political stability & social peace required for rapid economic growth", and economic growth is the main objective of the regime. Democracy is seen as chaos for a poor, large, developing country like China. While the regime has seen bold economic reform, it has taken place while sustaining a dictorial political system. China still identifies with other communist-party states, as well as carrying some of the same basic features seen in totalitarian systems. While some of these totalitarian features have been abandoned as well as moderated, China is currently overall rejecting much of what it would need to be considered as a country working towards democratization. With changes such as required retirement ages for government positions, eventually, sooner than later, a younger generation will be faced with the idea of democratization and with global demands, it may find it necessary to adapt to the ideas in order to strengthen it's own economy.
I agree with your statements about China still being a totalitarian nation while I seem to think of them as a kind of hybrid compared to many as well. You also spoke about the bold reforms which I spoke about as well, in that they want to make leaps in their market system that makes steps towards being much more capitalistic. I think the fact that the people value education and knowledge to such a degree makes it inevitable that the next generations will desire a more democratic system that allows them to reap the rewards of hard work.
DeleteI agree with what you are saying about thinking of China as a communist country but in my opinion it is becoming more of a democracy in the way that it conducts business with the world. China is one of the largest industrial nations in the world and China did not get that way by totaling acting as a communist country. On the other hand education, and high level elections are on a communist level. Only certain things are taught and no one is elected to a high level position unless approved by the CCP. I think that the notion of China becoming a democracy will come up but not in the near future will this ever happen because the CCP has a very tight grip on everything. Things happen because the CCP has thought it through and because they allow it to happen. The incident that happened in the square proves that the CCP will do what ever is necessary to stop the opposition.
DeleteWhat changes did Mao make to Marxism and Leninism to make them more appropriate to the Chinese setting?
ReplyDeleteMarxism focused on an industrial society with two classes, the proletariat (workers) and the bourgeoisie (employers and owners aka upper and middle class) and claimed that the state represented the interests of only the bourgeoisie. Marx argued that an organic revolution was inevitable in an advanced industrial society where the proletariat would overthrow the bourgeoisie. Lenin’s revolution was not organic although he utilized the proletariat in the revolution. With Marxism, peasants had no role in the revolution whereas Lenin cultivated the peasants.
Mao tailored Marxism and Leninism to suit rural and agricultural societies versus Marx’s and Lenin’s industrial society. Having been raised, educated, and trained by Mao, the peasants had a militant role in the Chinese revolution versus peasants having no role in Marxism. Further, Mao initiated the Chinese revolution versus Marx’s organic revolution. A primary change made by Mao was the power of government. The most notable change Mao made was the power of governance. While Marxism predicted an eventual classless, peaceful happy society without governance, Mao was a dictator who ruled with an iron fist and held complete power.
In a nutshell, Mao tailored Marxism and Leninism to fit his agenda.
I like your points on how Mao tailored marxism and leninism to fit the needs of there country in particular. China seems somehow content with the system however and perhaps it comes from the belief that the government has their best interest in mind and rather than try to rock the boat it is better to go along with the system. I liked how the China group discussed that it seems that China is leaning towards democratization especially since their economic system becomes more capitalistic as time goes on.
DeleteHi Sunny. I agree with your finding, but Mao incorporated the industrial portion of Marxism into the Chinese society as well. However, as you noted he adjusted it to meet the Chinese's communist culture.
DeleteCorey,
DeleteThank you for the correction. Duly noted. : )
Mao greatly altered Marxism-Leninism and classical Marxism so as to be applied to the particularities of the Chinese revolution and his vision for the future of China.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the largest difference between Marx’s manifesto and ‘classical Marxism’ and Mao’s Marxism and ‘Maoism’ is the mobilization of the proletariat versus the rural farmers/peasantry. Mao revised Marx’s theory of the revolutionary class from the working, urban proletariat, to largely a mobilization of farmers to fit the percularities of the Chinese Revolution, and the socio-economic situation within China. He stressed the need of not an urban led revolution, but an agrarian one. (Citing in part Lenin’s theory of imperialism as the justification for this revision.)
Mao did not stress initially the need for industrialization as a precursor between class, institutionalized violence and hegemony and communism; nor as a necessary development in order to move towards a socialist vision, believing that industrialization only further exploits his ‘proletariat’ class. Mao furthermore ignored the context of Marx’s proletariat revolution and transition to communism, as it was in a capitalist society where the working class would fight against the classism of their society and attain control of the mode of production.
Mao additionally stressed and outlined the necessity of a violent revolution, to which Marx didn’t really address.
Mao focused much more on an ideological orthodoxy of communism to which he fit his own ‘creative Marxism’ than on reintegrating and reawakening the working poor to the material conditions that had mentally and physically isolated them and enslaved them from the world and their mind.
Ideologically speaking, perhaps the largest difference is wherein Marx looked towards the economy to facilitate social change, Mao seemed to focus much more than Marx upon hastily altering the ideology, nature and vision of the people of China. Mao in this manner seems to conveniently and greatly overlook Marx’s historic-economic and material determinism.
To refer to China as a communist country would not be wrong necessarily but they have transformed their country so that it is somewhat of a hybrid compared to Soviet Russia and other communist nations. Through the Market-lenninism they transformed the proletariat so that they functioned as an agricultural nation versus primarily industrial. This did not always work as planned since we saw the mass starvation during his first attempt. Also through raising a large campaign for raising nationalism he encouraged the people to back the "communist" ideals of China. In most ways communism still looms over the people by limiting their ability for free speach and use of internet for example.
ReplyDeleteI don't think China is a true communist nation either. Because communism is such a huge ideology, I do not think any country could completely enact it, even the Soviet Union. However, China did choose to bring capitalistic ideas into their version of communism, therefore making it less communist than the Soviet Union. China still has an authoritarian-communist feel with those limits on freedom.
DeleteDiscuss the possibility of China’s democratization.
ReplyDeleteWhile China's recent progress in modernizing their market economy and the CCP's desire to become a globally competitive superpower, there are several issues that will prevent China from becoming a democracy in the near future. The first and foremost issue that many political scientists are quick to point out is the fact that China's society has been historically steeped in Confucian culture. The reason why this would prevent rapid democratization is because for centuries, the Confucian ideology has furthered the authoritarian and bureaucratic rule that has dominated politics and the portions of the central Confucian philosophy require individuals to respect their elders and the status quo which has been placed before them; all of which is counterintuitive to the democratic ideal. The second issue that arises is the high level of control that the CCP holds over the people's lives as well as the publics inherent fear of any type of political change which has historically resulted in violence. With this taken into account in combination with the exponential economic growth that has occurred since Deng Xiaoping's governance which has in turn benefited the material lives of millions of citizens, it seems unlikely that China will soon democratize unless the CCP loses power internally and externally.
The meaning of Democratization is the transition to a more democratic political regime. There is a fundamental political transformation taking place in China. There are two economic factors that are important for democratization. The levels of development and of inequality. Nations experiencing mid-level economic development. Economic trends are creating a reservoir of forces available for political mobilization. Chinese born after 1980 have lower levels of trust in government. Chinese culture is not opposing democratization to the extent that some make think. There is division among the ruling elites into multiple factions can contribute to democratization.
DeleteThe road to democracy in China will not be an easy task, but the drive for democratization in China will accelerate in the future.
Nick,
DeleteI completely agree with your post and appreciate your focus on Chinese society. As an accounting major I tend to focus on numbers/economics. However, as a woman and a mother, the social issues in China have my attention. The CCP controls the Chinese people to the point of controlling birth control, requiring pregnancy pre-approval, and until very recently the CCP enforced the one child rule through forced pregnancy terminations, imprisonment of husband and/or wife and/or imposing severe monetary fines. The complete control and abuse of the Chinese people by the CCP has instilled fear in the people for generations. As you stated, it seems unlikely that China will soon democratize unless the CCP loses power internally and externally.
Mao's contribution to Marxism-Leninism lay not in his theoretical writings, which were often plodding and in which he showed little interest himself, but in his signification of Marxism. When the Chinese Communists were floundering and faced extinction because of their orthodox concentration on the cities and the proletariat, Mao discovered the peasantry. He succeeded in imposing a party organized along tight Leninist lines and, animated by certain basic Marxist tenets, on a largely peasant base.
ReplyDeleteWell said, Corey. I agree.
Delete